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because I wouldn't think there was necessarily anyone from the National Security Staff. And as I said also earlier, I don't personally remember Mr. Johnson myself at all.

Mr. Baron. As I represented to you earlier, Mr. Johnson, in testimony before the Committee, indicated that he was present at a NSC meeting in his capacity as a notetaker, at which the President made a remark that clearly indicated to Mr. Johnson that he had ordered the assassination of Lumumba. And Mr. Johnson said there was a silence -- Mr. Johnson himself was shocked, but no one at the meeting reacted explicitly, and the meeting simply proceeded. He places this meeting in the summer of 1960, and said that it happened at some point before the coup in which Mobutu took power on September or 14th of 1960. Were you present at such a meeting?

Mr. Dillon. If you mean was I present at a meeting where I recall the President ordering the assassination of Lumumba, I don't remember such a thing. But I think that I was probably present at most of the Security Council meetings at that time. It being in August I might have been away for a week possibly for a vacation, and I might have missed one. But otherwise I would have been there. It could have been in view of this feeling of everybody that Lumumba was very difficult if not impossible person to deal with, and was dangerous to the peace and safety of the world, that the President expressed himself, we will