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I don't know that I would have taken that as a clearcut order as Mr. Johnson apparently did. And I think perhaps others present may have interpreted it other ways. But I am pretty sure that if the President had said you go and get rid of him, shoot him or something -- I just can't conceive of him doing that. But I can conceive of him saying, let's take action and get this situation rectified, which is more or less along the lines of the various memoranda you have shown me.

Mr. Baron. Did you ever hear the President make such a remark about Lumumba, let's get rid of him, or let's take action right away on this?

Mr. Dillon. I don't remember that. But certainly this was the general feeling of Government at that time, and it wouldn't have been if the President hadn't agreed with it.

Mr. Baron. So although you have no recollection of being present at the meeting that Robert Johnson recounts, you would find his testimony at least plausible?

Mr. Dillon. It is possible. But I would think anything like this was not a direct order to have an assassination, but let's take some action to get rid of Lumumba, get him out of office.

Mr. Dawson. Would that be adequate, implicity authorization?

Mr. Dillon. It would have been up to the CIA as to what they thought. And they could have well thought that. That

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